Many of the comments I have received about Wine Guy and his mixed messages have referenced the book called He’s Just Not That Into You: The No-Excuses Truth to Understanding Guys
Since I clearly needed a refresher, I have reread the abridged version, He’s Just Not That Into You: Your Daily Wake-up Call
I paraphrased when I could, although some of the excerpts were too good not to quote word for word. I’ll start with one of the simplest and most obvious truths:
“He’s just not that into you if he’s not calling you. Men know how to use the phone.” (#43)
If a guy is into you, he won’t hide it. He won’t make you guess. He won’t hesitate to introduce you as his girlfriend.
If a guy is trying to woo you, nothing, not even a tree fallen on a house during a hurricane [Tex], will keep him from calling, texting, emailing, sending a messenger owl, whatever it takes to make sure that you are thinking about him as much as he is thinking about you.
“Don’t give him the chance to reject you again.” (#197)
Girls try to read between the lines of what a guy is saying and what’s he doing. You shouldn’t have to decipher anything because what he says and what he does should always match. “Don’t be with someone who doesn’t do what they say they’re going to do.” (#61)
“No answer is your answer.” (#196)
Not many people–male OR female–will admit to your face, “I’m not into you.” For some reason that means the polite thing to do is lead them on by accepting a phone number and making (or implying) fake interest.
“You are going to meet many men in many different stages of recovering from relationships. If he is really into you, he will get over his issues fast and make sure he doesn’t lose you. Or he will make it clear to you how he feels, so there’s no mystery, and tell you up front that he’s not up to it right now. And then you can best be sure, the minute he is ready, he will run out and find you. You are not easily forgettable.” (#206)
If a guy tells you “you don’t want to date me,” LISTEN TO HIM.
If a guy’s own friends try to warn you about him, LISTEN TO THEM.
“Men, for the most part, like to pursue women. We like not knowing if we can catch you. We feel rewarded when we do. Especially when the chase is a long one.” (#29)
“If you can find him, then he can find you. If he wants to find you, he will.” (#38)
Here’s one that I have a very hard time with, as you have read for yourself with the previous three posts:
“…it’s an infuriating concept–that men like to chase and you have to let us chase you. I know. It’s insulting. It’s frustrating. It’s unfortunately the truth. My belief is that if you have to be the aggressor, if you have to pursue, if you have to do the asking out, nine times out of ten, he’s just not that into you.”
So… what are the “go after what I want” (aka impatient) girls like me supposed to do? Anyone? Seriously, it goes against my entire nature not to be assertive.
“…I hate to tell you this, but some of these men [in your dating lifespan] will simply not be attracted to you. I know you’re hot, but that’s just the way it is. And every single one of these men that are not attracted to you will never ever tell you that.” (#86)
Now for a big fat neon reality check of a truth:
“If I were into you, you would be the bright spot in my horribly busy day. Which would be a day that I would never be too busy to call you.” (#45)
Real life dating does not follow the plot of a Hollywood romantic comedy. Even my favorite tv show Sex and the City doesn’t always get it right. The smooth-talking Mr. Big, Carrie’s recurrent love interest? He is exactly the kind of guy you should avoid at all costs, even if you have to beat him off you with the business end of your stiletto. He gives you enough hope to keep you hooked, but is vague enough that he always leaves you guessing.
If you take nothing else away from this post, remember this: if a guy is interested, nothing will keep him from asking you out. Feel free to remind me of this as needed in the future, because I am sure I will be needing the occasional bitchslap. And a link to my own post, just to make it that much more glaringly obvious that I should know this shit by now.
Stumble it!
PerthPete | 09-Nov-09 at 8:28 am | Permalink
Hey Vix,
Instruction, about required reminder, duly noted.
Just don’t beat up on yourself too much. Remember you have “it”. One day the man you are interested in WILL be into you. You have experienced it previously, you will again.
Peter.
JD | 09-Nov-09 at 9:06 am | Permalink
So how does this account for us shy guys, who don’t realize until later that it might have been time to ask for someone’s number? I might be quite interested in someone, but that doesn’t mean I can manage to ask them out.
Masodistic | 09-Nov-09 at 9:24 am | Permalink
The easiest and most effective way for someone to say ‘I’m not that into you’ without insulting the aggressor: ‘I’m sorry, I’ve got a boyfriend/girlfriend’. Really. Is it that hard for people to think of that one?
Honey | 09-Nov-09 at 10:14 am | Permalink
I think that’s the wrong tack, Masodistic. Then you’re implying that if you were single, you WOULD be into them, which just encourages them to continue to pursue you, trying to get you to cheat. Which is not good for anyone, and if you were lying about being in a relationship, that will quickly become obvious to the person when they start stalking you.
I used to always say, “I appreciate your interest, but I’m not interested.” Or, if a skeezy guy asked me to dance/go on a date with him, etc., if at all possible I would just say, “No.”
Honestly, the less you say, the more likely you are to stop further/future advances. The more you explain yourself, the more you are giving the other person license to bargain with you.
Taoist Biker | 09-Nov-09 at 10:36 am | Permalink
As for “what’s an impatient girl to do,” I wrote about that one two years ago. More from the standpoint of how a guy should react in that situation than what a gal should do, but still.
My summation to my fellow men who say “No offense, I have to be the chaser not the chasee” is: “if ever there’s a girl out there who’s willing and able to ride you like a stolen Ducati, it’s a gal with the independence, confidence, assertiveness, and brass ovaries to seek you out if she decides she’s interested. Just don’t make hasty assumptions, give a gal a chance, and see where it goes.”
Sometimes I can’t tell whether to consider myself incredibly lucky that I’m married and don’t have to go through this shit anymore…or whether to be a little pissed because at this point I know so much more about the whole thing than the last time I was single that I might actually be less than thoroughly clueless this time around…
thestork | 09-Nov-09 at 12:31 pm | Permalink
this post is exactly right
Jul | 09-Nov-09 at 4:16 pm | Permalink
I think sometimes you come off too strong, maybe even intense. People of both sex usually don’t respond too well to that approach. Next time you go buy wine, and if you see him, just ignore him or give a quick hi. I still can’t believe you waited around the second time while he was stocking. Never be the one who makes all the effort.
Katya | 09-Nov-09 at 6:19 pm | Permalink
Jul has it exactly right.
Sarah C. | 09-Nov-09 at 7:00 pm | Permalink
Boys are aliens. ‘Nuff said.
GSM | 09-Nov-09 at 8:16 pm | Permalink
Ignore the “men need the thrill of the chase” bullshit. There is no need to play the demure female game. The kind of guy that needs his ego propped up so he can delude himself into thinking that he is some sort of alpha male predator is going to be the kind of game playing dipshit you say you want to avoid. There is nothing wrong with going after what you want and it’s refreshing when women have the confidence to get the process started. With that said, Jul did just nail your major tactical error for this incident- following him around while he stocked was a horrible idea. If you really just wanted cheese as opposed to wanting another opportunity to see him, you should have gotten in and out with no more than a quick hello with a smile and an “I really need to get going”. You walked the guy through the first 80% and made it real easy for him. You gave him your number and pretty much invited him to invite you out to dinner. That’s perfectly acceptable but if he doesn’t bite just move on.
Jon | 09-Nov-09 at 10:11 pm | Permalink
Did we asertain that he’s not gay? Gay men can be “very single” too, and might just accept a number out of politeness.
ashley | 09-Nov-09 at 10:25 pm | Permalink
I agree with Jul, as well
Taoist Biker | 10-Nov-09 at 7:21 am | Permalink
I respectfully disagree with Jul. If a guy can’t either handle it or directly state that he’s not interested or available or whatever, then he’s not cut out to deal with a strong or assertive woman anyway. If you are one of those women, you might as well learn that crucial bit of information up front.
Me Thinks | 10-Nov-09 at 8:58 am | Permalink
Jul is 100% right. But wine guy is still a big pussy for inviting you to follow him around the store and implying he might be calling.
I think the book has fab advice in early stages of dating, but once you are in a relationship some of this doesn’t apply. I’d be interested in that part of the book I guess.
amber | 10-Nov-09 at 9:10 am | Permalink
i agree with Jul as well. after he didn’t call the first time (even after you told him to call you the next day if he was truly interested), you still hung out while he put away stock. by doing this, you taught him that not calling is an acceptable way to treat you, and you’ll still put yourself out for even a few minutes around him.
Jul | 10-Nov-09 at 9:26 am | Permalink
Biker, maybe he just felt bad because she came off desperate or just wanted someone to talk to. Working in retail is boring. I don’t understand why women have to make excuses if a guy isn’t interested. He just isn’t.It probably has nothing to do with his character. Take it upon youself to see when someone is not interested,it will save you time.It would be better if you spent less time analyzing because that means you care about the guy a lot more than he does about you.
Nola | 10-Nov-09 at 9:50 am | Permalink
In my experience, Jul is right on. I can’t think of a single man who’s ever called me when I’ve hung around chatting while he worked - and trust me, I’ve done it a lot. It’s totally fine if I just want a chatty buddy where I shop (has its own benefits), but for whatever reason it’s never made a man interested in me.
Oh, no, wait - there was one. But that was The Worst Sex of my life, so I wish he’d never called.
Taoist Biker | 10-Nov-09 at 10:51 am | Permalink
People still disagree with me?!? COMMENT FIGHT! COMMENT FIGHT!
I will accept that this is probably just a reflection of my own weirdness. In person I tend to be extremely shy and withdrawn and it would take someone more or less brazenly approaching me to make me think “Gee, maybe it ISN’T entirely my imagination that she might be interested!”
Being confronted with a strong and assertive woman brings out those strong and assertive tendencies in me to a somewhat surprising degree. On the plus side, each trying to one-up the other and take charge makes for some AWESOME sex. Assuming you don’t pull a muscle or something.
Given my own proclivities, I find it hard to see why others don’t appreciate a lady feeling free to express her own interest instead of playing coy. But again, that’s probably just me. I can see that the world is slanted toward Jul’s take, I just personally would prefer otherwise.
Shajtana | 10-Nov-09 at 10:53 am | Permalink
Thank you for a nice reminder
Brittany | 10-Nov-09 at 10:57 am | Permalink
This is one of my favorite posts. I just finished reading this book a few days ago after a break-up (You should also check out It’s Called a Breakup Because It’s Broken, same author. It’s fantastic!). I’ve learned so much just from listening to some guy tell me that not everyone is going to be interested.
Innocent Loverboy | 10-Nov-09 at 11:27 am | Permalink
I respectfully don’t agree with the idea that if a guy is interested, nothing will keep him from asking a girl out. As I’ve already said via Twitter, if - like yours truly - you have a fear of failure, then you don’t (or at least find t very hard to) ask people out.
There have been plenty of young ladies in the past who I’ve been very interested in, nigh on love in some cases, who I never dared to ask out, for fear of how I’d end up feeling if they said no.
In fact, the first - and so far only - time I did actually do the traditional asking-out thing, I got a rejection. Not a good start.
Over Educated Nympho | 10-Nov-09 at 1:09 pm | Permalink
Many excellent comments. With the wisdom of hindsight (and aforementioned excellent comments), I realize that the second time I saw Wine Guy, I should have done no more than smile/wave and go about my business.
Why was I SO incredibly forward the second time? Because I thought that maybe Wine Guy was the shy/clueless kind who need to have a girl spell out her intentions before he will believe she’s really interested.
I do not think I came off as desperate, not in the slightest bit. Confident? Yes. Maybe even over-confident to the point of being pushy. Fine. I won’t make that mistake again.
But I refuse to believe that I should not be strong/intense in the future. This IS how I am. Best to scare off the pansies early, even if they were cute and could have gotten me discounts on wine.
girlinthemirror | 10-Nov-09 at 6:23 pm | Permalink
Vix,
This is in regards to yoour comment above me. I don’t think you should change your approach at all. Especially not based on this one dude. It’s worked in the past and you know how to work it well. Some guys just aren’t going to bite, no matter what approach you use. Great comments everyone.
PickledLeprechauns | 11-Nov-09 at 12:27 pm | Permalink
Your approach needs to be one that will both attract the kind of man you want to attract AND be true enough to yourself that you aren’t attracting some dude you aren’t compatible with.
ALA | 11-Nov-09 at 1:22 pm | Permalink
I do agree with Jul, and I also agree that he’s a pussy. I think your best approach is to be perfectly clear, like you were upon your initial meeting, and then leave it alone.
Gina | 11-Nov-09 at 3:16 pm | Permalink
I must say, all the guys I’ve dated, I’ve chased after. I showed my interest and tried to be obvious about it, not because I was an idiot who didn’t get a ‘call’, but because they expressed a bit of interest back. Now we cannot blame Vix (and you cannot blame yourself!) for waiting around for him the second time, because he indeed did show interest as to whether or not you were single, and asked you to stay and talk. Guys, just like girls, like attention and like it when a girl is interested in them (you can’t deny that!). I disagree with Jul, when I was pursuing someone, I made it very obvious that I was interested but in a way that I was still myself. Assertive and independent women cannot help it if they are strong. If a guy doesn’t like us for that, then that’s fine, they can go find a girl who is helpless and needs attention 24/7. I know guys want time to themselves, and to be honest, independent women understand that too!
You’re right Vix, there are some guys that need the girl to open them up a little and show them her boundaries. I find many of the things in your post true except for the one where you had to contemplate because I, too, am assertive and you know what? With that assertiveness I’ve landed myself an amazing relationship. =)
Silvvy | 11-Nov-09 at 4:36 pm | Permalink
Yeah I don’t buy this advice from “He’s Just Not Into You” my last boyfriend pretty much broke a lot of these rules. Especially the “men know how to use a phone” so if they were into you they would call you. Hahahaha…at the beginning of our relationship, he seriously would not call a lot of the time. I’d call or send him an email and he wouldn’t email me back or call back. I’d have to email twice or call twice to get an answer. I thought this meant he wasn’t into me but I was DEAD wrong. He fell for me FAST and once we got serious, I realize that he just was horrible at maintaining his end of communication and it didn’t reflect at all on how much he was into me. He wasn’t doing some stupid game or being manipulative, but while he was falling in love with me I didn’t know if he even liked my that much. I know it sounds odd, but believe me, he’s an odd one. I tend to fall for the guys that don’t follow any of those advice books that try to explain “guys” behavior. That’s why I’ve learned to just pay attention to the individual and not listen to any categorical “truths.” The best advice: just don’t care too much.
And I’m definitely with Gina on this one - men like to be the chasers? Please….only the ones I don’t want to get near!
Vix:
So… what are the “go after what I want” (aka impatient) girls like me supposed to do? Anyone? Seriously, it goes against my entire nature not to be assertive.
I say ignore that part of the book. Chase, go after what you want. Some guys will be into you and some guys won’t. You’re not doing anything wrong - no approach is going to work on every person because everyone is different.
Twisted | 12-Nov-09 at 1:44 am | Permalink
I majored in sucking dick in college. I graduated magna CUM laude.
Just read that and though of you
Wincent | 14-Nov-09 at 11:16 pm | Permalink
Well, hmmm… alright lemme toss in a psychology tidbit here. The reason psychology is so difficult and inaccurate is because people are so different. Categorizing people is like sorting hand made waffles based on shape - same generic pattern but HUGE differences. Everything from culture to genetics affects how people act (ie there is an island culture that is very “Amazan” where aggressive men are considered unusual and women “naturally” are the aggressors). I’m with Toaist in the whole shy-so-I-don’t-know-if-your-intrested. A girl would probably have to hit me over the head to get my attention, course I’d probably blush so hard I’d pass out, but, point is not every guy or girl are the same. We are predisposed to certain things and it’s better if you are aggressive because what if you started a relationship based on HIM thinking your not assertive? I’m guessing downward spiral followed by mushroom cloud.
So, better to know now, and also don’t fret you’ll run across somebody if you keep trying, after all thats why it’s called “dating” and “looking” not “marriage”. So GL to ya Vix!
-sincerely,
Wincent - NOT Vincent